The LA Times editorial recently called out three Asian American California state senators for backing out of their support for repealing prop 209 which banned affirmative action. Supposedly the three liberal Democrats withdrew their support because they received "thousands" of complaints from Asian Americans fearing that the repeal will decrease Asian American enrollments at Berkeley and UCLA. The Times said that the debate should be about whether diversity in universities is a benefit and not whether a particular group gain or lose acceptance letters.
First, I would agree that we should argue whether diversity is important enough to justify racial and "gender" bias. By the way, if prop 209 is repealed, then gender affirmative action can also be used. In that case, it would benefit males as they represent less that 45% of the enrollments at Berkeley and UCLA. I would like to see what liberal female groups think about that! But by singling out selfish desires of Asian Americans, the Times is being dishonest. I am sure that Latino and Black groups who want affirmative action are not doing so because of diversity but because they want increase in enrollment of their own group. If these groups and liberal whites believe diversity is that important then they should have complained about black colleges and women colleges. Would they come out and say the students in these colleges receive an inferior education due to lack of diversity? Anyway, I would submit that Berkeley and UCLA is more diverse as it is compared to most elite colleges. Its white enrollment is less than 40% compare to some famous liberal art colleges that are 70% plus white. Asian Americans ARE a diverse group. There are big difference between East Asians, South Asians, South East Asians, Pacific Islanders etc. They are also diverse in socio-economic status, immigration history and religious preferences. They are also diverse in conservative and liberal ideology. I would argue that a political science student at UCLA would have a more diverse experience than someone at Howard or Amherst.
I do believe that the playing field is not level. Kids who go to private schools and have SAT tutoring have big advantage over poor kids. So to me using affirmative action due to socio-economic status is fair. A kid who came from a poor family and went to a bad school, regardless of race, should be given extra points against my kids when applying to college. But Obama's kids should not have an advantage against my kids just because their parents are black. I am sure the president would agree with that.
An aside, MSU and Michigan put up good fights. The Big Ten could have easily gotten 3 of the final 4 spots.
It seems like we've talked about this before. The issue in California is so different than probably the rest of the country (I'd like to see what the case is, in Hawaii).
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of pressure on these Asian politicians to "do what's right."
There may not be any correct answer to any of this. I know that when I was a student leader, the Asian American students were grouped together with the Hispanic, African American, Native Americans and in some instances, Lesbian/Gay groups.
Of course, when grouped together, the population was still less than 30% of the student body, probably even less. So the dynamic is still different.
I'd almost equate some of these California schools to the "black" colleges. I'm sure they don't have the same logistics either, but if all of the sudden, a mass amount of white students wanted to attend a school like Grambling, things might be shaky.
You are correct that Asian Americans are a diverse group. It can say that about any group, but there is truly diversity among Asians.
I agree with you that there should be help for lower income students, regardless of race. But you and I know that will never happen, because everyone is fighting for their piece of pie. And when that happens, not much gets done and the majority usually wins out.
Maybe they should just call Affirmative Action something else. It's like the Gay Marriage debate. Just call it Lawful Union and get it over and done with.
I was disappointed with MSU's loss yesterday. It was fitting since the whole season was like that. You saw glimpses of greatness and then you'd also see flat out incompetence.
Michigan, I thought, had a great season. They should be very proud of what they were able to do. They ran into a hot team, like MSU, and just didn't get it done.
You are right. Both teams could be talking about the Final Four right now. But that's the beauty of the tournament. There was some really fun and entertaining games.
I have no idea who I am rooting for now. I am leaning towards UConn.
-LBOAYM
I am sure we have discussed this before. As AYM I will often talked about issues important to Asian Americans but I will also try to point out the unfair ideas from both conservative and liberal sides. In this case 3 liberal democrats are being called out by a liberal media and their own party for answering to the concerns of their constituents so I feel I need to talk about it.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure about what you mean by equating the Calif. colleges to black colleges. My point is that these Calif. colleges are way more diverse than other schools already. A future political leader in a UCLA class may come across a discussion of India-Pakistan relation by Indian and Pakistan students, China-Japan claims of islands discussed by Chinese and Japanese students, the similarity of discrimination faced by Vietnamese fishing boat workers in the Gulf of Mexico and Mexican immigrants working in the fields of Texas discussed by Vietnamese and Mexican students. So to me, if the argument is that UCLA or Berkeley is not diverse enough because they have 40% Asians, then I think that is being totally dishonest.
Let say if by giving x number of points of a minority applicant based on race will achieve racial "diversity" the liberals desire, then why can't we give the same x number of points to kids of low income, raised by single parent, go to poor schools and live in poor neighborhood? Then we will achieve socio-economic diversity. In this scenario, Barack Obama may get some points but his children will not. My idea will not be accepted by colleges. It is much more profitable for them to accept Obama's children who can pay the full price than to accept poor white kids who need financial aid. Plus Obama's kids will improve the college's minority enrollment stats while the poor white kids will not. So it is not about doing the right thing but it is about window dressing.
I am coming at the angle of the non-Asians. So for non-Asians, they don't see some of these California schools as diverse. They lump all the Asians together. In a way, they are the "majority" (especially since they have the largest percentage of students), even though they are a minority in in this country.
ReplyDeleteTo me, there is no "right thing to do" when it comes to politics and Asian Americans. There is a lot of polarization among the Asian American community when it comes to politics. These politicians are told they must "do the right thing". Which I agree, there isn't such a thing.
So I think those politicians can't decide what to do. Do they go with party lines or do they go with what they think will help the Asian American cause? Sometimes, those things do not go hand in hand.
As far as the comparison with Black colleges, I tried to make the closest comparison I can think of. I think there's a movement by some of the black colleges to increase enrollment and there are non-black students who want to attend these schools.
In these cases, the non-black students are the minority in that school. So, is there an "affirmative action" for the non-blacks?
It's not a direct comparison, I know, but it's the closest thing I can come up with.
I just think everyone is fighting for their piece of pie, which is neither right nor wrong. So they throw words out there like diversity to make it sound like they are looking for an idea situation that could never exist.
I agree with what you would want to do, but like I said before, it would never happen because people are greedy and they look out for themselves instead of the big picture.
-LBOAYM
Thanks for clearing couple of points. I see what you are getting at with the black college comment and about non Asians perspective on Asian non diversity. Regarding that last point there are people in Calif. who think that schools like UCLA and Berkeley have offices in Asia to recruit students so that Californians are shut out! So that is why we should put it out there that despite the fact that not all Asians are from rich families, they nevertheless have the highest GPA and SAT scores and are deserved their spots in these colleges. And we have to let people know that we are a diverse group, not all bookworms with the sole purpose of taking college spots.
ReplyDeleteYou mentioned earlier that other groups are diverse as well. And that is correct. There are rich and poor, conservative and liberal, religious and non religious in all ethnic groups. But from my perspective, this diversity means that by using race as the criteria for affirmative action is not fair. This may only increase the number of doctors' kids getting in.
Anyways, the definition of self reporting race and ethnic group can lead to absurdity. Several years ago the Times reported that a Jewish guy who grew up in Venezuela claimed to be Latino on his application. I don't know what the outcome was but I can see possible abuse all over the place. My wife had a Chinese friend who grew up in Ghana because her family owned a Chinese restaurant there. So she had a Ghana passport. Now can her kids claim to be African American?
I will leave you with the following joke from an actual news reported on LA tv news and see if you can come up with the punch line that describes how Californians think of Asians in colleges here: A white female student had an argument with some Asian guys at the UCLA library. She claims she was studying and the guys were making too much noise around her and would not stop when asked to. The comedian said "I think this whole thing amazing because......."
Baseball season started and my pick Dodgers already are in a little trouble with Kershaw on the DL. I am not too worried. I think Ryu can hold down the fort till Kershaw comes back. How are the Tigers going to do?
Well I have two punchlines...
ReplyDeleteThe first is "...you never find white people in the library at UCLA."
The second is "...Asians are always so quiet."
I'm sure the real punchline is much better!
The Dodgers better hope to get to the World Series. They've already endured a tough beginning of the season. There is so much money tied up in the ball club. I wonder if ownership will stop spending at some point or if it has the funds to just outspend everyone.
I am a big Dodgers fan, but what they are doing is very similar to what the Yankees have done every year. I don't like the spending in major league baseball.
It was estimated that Miguel Carbrerra, who is probably the top hitter in baseball, will receive about $40,000 per at bat after signing his extension.
It's just crazy how baseball salaries keep going up. And I am a Tigers fan too!
I remember when Dave Winfield signed his big contract. That's chump change. I don't know how the average person can relate to this. Think about it. $40,000 is above the median household income in Michigan. That just makes me shake my head.
A lot of people can't afford sending their kids to college. Everything is going up around them. Yet sports figures can make a year's salary at a fraction of the time.
Sorry for the rant. I don't know what to expect from the Tigers. They are expected to go to the World Series. The problem is that they are missing some key pieces, their starting short stop is out with stress fractures and may not be back this season. Plus they have a new manager.
I'll know more about the team by the All Star break, I guess. But I assume since they have a good nucleus, they should be contending.
-LBOAYM
You are on target with the punch line. It was: "I didn't know there are non Asians studying at the UCLA library." The fact that we all knew the punch line coming tells about the stereotype of Asians in California.
ReplyDeleteTwo walk off wins in first two games! You should feel confident about the Tigers. Of course, Nathan already blew his first save. I think the closer is the most important player on a contending team. The Red Sox got lucked out with the Japanese dude last season while the Tigers, if they had a decent closer, would have won it all last season. The thing is, closers usually don't stay good for more than couple of years. This makes Mariano Rivera's career so amazing. The Dodgers and Tigers both have excellent starters but can their bullpens hold up? Also I hope Cabrera is not like Albert Pujos who bombed immediately after signing a big 10 year contract.
Now it is my turn to rant. The thing that ticks me off with the Dodgers is that they, like the Lakers, formed their own network. So you can only watch if you have Time Warners cable or if your satellite tv, like DIRECTV, is willing to pay TWC tons of money. Of course that is passed to the consumers. Now if they only charge people who want to subscribe to the Dodgers then it is all right. But if you don't like the Dodgers or Lakers, you will still have to pay for the rate increase which ultimately becomes billions of dollars intake for the Dodgers and Lakers. As much as I like sports, I am not a Dodger fan so I would not buy their games if given a choice. But I will not be given a choice once DIRECTV succumbs to the Dodger fans demand to pay TWC. That to me is unAmerican.
So the Dodgers games are not on KCAL anymore? That is a really bad situation, if you don't have TWC or DirecTV to buy into the station.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realize that the Lakers did the same thing. What about the Clippers?
Does Vince Scully still do the games on this TV station?
As exciting as it was to win both games by walk off hits, I don't think they want to play with fire like that.
We don't know how good or bad the Royals are either. So if they are a bad team, it doesn't show much if they sweep them or won both games.
I am concerned about the lack of runs. I don't know if there is a rule like the pitchers are ahead of the batters earlier in the year or if it's the reverse.
I will tell you one thing. The Tigers are a much more aggressive base running team this year. Sounds like they are utilizing some of the speed from the new guys.
-LBOAYM
All the LA teams had most of their games on Fox cable channels and very few games on over the air channels before the Lakers formed their own station with TWC. As a DIRECTV subscriber I was forced to pay $4 per month more as a result of deal DIRECTV made with TWC. So far no deal has been made between those two over the Dodgers. If the deal is similar that means I will pay $8 per month more for exactly the same products I received two years ago. All these charges end up as profit for TWC, Dodgers and Lakers even though I don't really want to pay for them. And with Fox having less products on their stations, there is no reduction in charges from them, at least not passed over from DIRECTV to us consumers!
ReplyDeleteVin Scully still do all the games Dodgers play in California and Arizona. Other games are handled by someone else. Despite getting slightly confused at times, he is still one of the best thing about Dodgers broadcasts.
Pitching is still the key and the Tigers still have Verlander, Scherzer and Sanchez. Just need the bullpen to come through. Ryu will be pitching the third out of six Dodger game tomorrow. I think he will be great this season. Last season he came in totally out of shape, dead last in running among the pitchers. Who said Asians work harder than anyone else? This year he came into camp in much better shape, even keeping with Kershaw in the running. Having watched how hard Kershaw worked last season really has motivated him. Hopefully he can continue his improvement on the mound.